Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

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Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby brian423 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:37 am

Who dares to disagree with award-winning teacher John Taylor Gatto on the evils of America's compulsion-based, government-run schools? Who wants their butt kicked by me (rhetorically speaking) for disagreeing? :x :evil: :disapprove:

John Taylor Gatto wrote:I taught for thirty years in some of the worst schools in Manhattan, and in some of the best, and during that time I became an expert in boredom. Boredom was everywhere in my world, and if you asked the kids, as I often did, why they felt so bored, they always gave the same answers: They said the work was stupid, that it made no sense, that they already knew it. They said they wanted to be doing something real, not just sitting around. They said teachers didn't seem to know much about their subjects and clearly weren't interested in learning more. And the kids were right: their teachers were every bit as bored as they were.

Boredom is the common condition of schoolteachers, and anyone who has spent time in a teachers' lounge can vouch for the low energy, the whining, the dispirited attitudes, to be found there. When asked why they feel bored, the teachers tend to blame the kids, as you might expect. Who wouldn't get bored teaching students who are rude and interested only in grades? If even that. Of course, teachers are themselves products of the same twelve-year compulsory school programs that so thoroughly bore their students, and as school personnel they are trapped inside structures even more rigid than those imposed upon the children. Who, then, is to blame?

[....]

Do we really need school? I don't mean education, just forced schooling: six classes a day, five days a week, nine months a year, for twelve years. Is this deadly routine really necessary? And if so, for what? Don't hide behind reading, writing, and arithmetic as a rationale, because 2 million happy homeschoolers have surely put that banal justification to rest. Even if they hadn't, a considerable number of well-known Americans never went through the twelve-year wringer our kids currently go through, and they turned out all right. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln? Someone taught them, to be sure, but they were not products of a school system, and not one of them was ever "graduated" from a secondary school. Throughout most of American history, kids generally didn't go to high school, yet the unschooled rose to be admirals, like Farragut; inventors, like Edison; captains of industry, like Carnegie and Rockefeller; writers, like Melville and Twain and Conrad; and even scholars, like Margaret Mead. In fact, until pretty recently people who reached the age of thirteen weren't looked upon as children at all. Ariel Durant, who co-wrote an enormous, and very good, multivolume history of the world with her husband, Will, was happily married at fifteen, and who could reasonably claim that Ariel Durant was an uneducated person? Unschooled, perhaps, but not uneducated.

We have been taught (that is, schooled) in this country to think of "success" as synonymous with, or at least dependent upon, "schooling," but historically that isn't true in either an intellectual or a financial sense. And plenty of people throughout the world today find a way to educate themselves without resorting to a system of compulsory secondary schools that all too often resemble prisons. Why, then, do Americans confuse education with just such a system? What exactly is the purpose of our public schools?

[....]

I excerpted a few paragraphs above, but you really ought to read the whole thing.
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby shytiger on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:55 am

Compulsion-based school prepares people for boring jobs where they just have to sit around. It's essential to raising that boredom threshold so that even the tiniest non-event such as a new building going up across the street is a cause of excitement and amusement.
If a revolution destroys a government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves.... There's so much talk about the system. And so little understanding. --Robert Pirsig
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby brian423 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:03 pm

shytiger wrote:Compulsion-based school prepares people for boring jobs where they just have to sit around. It's essential to raising that boredom threshold so that even the tiniest non-event such as a new building going up across the street is a cause of excitement and amusement.

I hope you're not serious, because what you said is a cause of amusement.
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby stellarrenegade on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Ooooh, that's really good so far! Yep, that's the essay I have open in another tab right now that I still need to read when I get the chance (but I have a pretty good to-do list right now).

Awesome. I think I am for sure not going to let my kids go through the public school system. And I was thinking that even if I did, I'd be sure to immunize them against the concepts they encounter there. But this whole boredom factor arising out of institutionalization makes me think totally against it because I remember my own experience and how my bad grades arising out of such boredom and lack of attention were discouraging at times - and was a total waste of time to begin with. I regret how little of an actual childhood I had. meh.

Not only does public school teach many factually wrong things (and big surprise since the government is in charge of it), but the overarching themes and emphases and principles they teach, along with the rote, compulsory behavior they induce, communicate a very skewed, twisted worldview.

Brian, have you read Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong? I saw it on someone's FB info page just yesterday after our conversation and after previewing it decided to put it on my Wish List:

http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-T ... 292&sr=1-1
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby stellarrenegade on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:43 pm

I have a proposal: since so many of us see the flaws in the public school system, why don't we each put up material for essays on it to pack a powerful multifaceted punch?

There are different elements to this argument:

[*]Bureaucracy from the top-down - Goodrum?
[*]Public expenses and taxation - hmmm... (maybe myself?)
[*]Horrible education (both facts and concepts) - stellar
[*]Lecture-type of education rather than organic learning; boredom - shytiger?
[*]Strict format / oppressive atmosphere - Brian
[*]Lack of appreciation for differing temperaments and lifestyles - Alex
[*]etc - open-ended
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby WindyHill on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:32 pm

Tarring all schools with the same brush is unfair to those who have a fair idea of what they are doing.

The idea of school is good, though perhaps narrow.
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby Goodrum on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:55 pm

WindyHill wrote:Tarring all schools with the same brush is unfair to those who have a fair idea of what they are doing.

The idea of school is good, though perhaps narrow.


+ 1
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby RandomUser191 on Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:24 am

Goodrum wrote:
WindyHill wrote:Tarring all schools with the same brush is unfair to those who have a fair idea of what they are doing.

The idea of school is good, though perhaps narrow.


+ 1


+2
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby shytiger on Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:12 am

brian423 wrote:
shytiger wrote:Compulsion-based school prepares people for boring jobs where they just have to sit around. It's essential to raising that boredom threshold so that even the tiniest non-event such as a new building going up across the street is a cause of excitement and amusement.

I hope you're not serious, because what you said is a cause of amusement.


:mrgreen:
If a revolution destroys a government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves.... There's so much talk about the system. And so little understanding. --Robert Pirsig
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Re: Compulsion-based schooling is evil. You know it.

Postby brian423 on Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:58 am

WindyHill wrote:Tarring all schools with the same brush is unfair to those who have a fair idea of what they are doing.

The idea of school is good, though perhaps narrow.

Wrong! It's not only fair but necessary to tar all compulsion-based schooling with the same brush. How can you possibly justify a North Korean model of learning as preparation for life in a liberal democracy? And no, I don't think I'm exaggerating much by invoking North Korea. "The medium is the message," said Marshall McLuhan. You can't make kids understand freedom by threatening them with punishment if they don't, let's say, memorize the Bill of Rights. You might think you're teaching liberty by the content of the lesson, but you're actually teaching submission to tyranny by the method of instruction.

Enough with your ends-justify-the-means bullshit, please. >:d< :evil: :disapprove:
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