The inevitability of mistyping

[Cerebro93]

The Keirsey Temperament Sorter and MBTI alike both have chance of error. This mistyping can, if taken to heart, distort one's perceptions of themselves, and others perceptions of that individual. I find this most evident when sensing types, who are OBVIOUSLY sensing types, are typed at intuitives.
All this mistyping happens when someone has and IDEAL self in mind. They don't look at who they are, but who they think they SHOULD be. This distortion can be dangerous to some if they're truly looking to deepen their understanding of themselves.

So I have an ethical question for all of you, and I think it's a situation where we can all share our views, experiences, and opinions, logical or illogical (for thinking and feeling types, respectively ).
Is determining someone else's type and telling them immoral or inaccurate in any sense?

My twin brother has taken the MBTI twice, and the first time, he scored ENFP, the second, ENFJ. But after enough research and reading on MBTI and Temperament Theory, he is in no way an Idealist. He is for sure Extraverted and Perceiving, and he is in no way Intuitive. I discuss any abstract idea, and he gets lost. He likes topics that involve facts, details. He will talk about his music in a very concrete manner. He's definitely an expressive Artisan, either an ESFP Performer or and ESTP Promoter.
He's been exhibiting some immature behaviour recently, and he's told me he's been uncomfortable with who he is and wants to change himself. For this reason, I've been urging him to take the KTS-II so he can understand more about what makes him him, and grow to appreciate himself. But I know if he does it again, he'll score as intuitive, when I'm CERTAIN he is a sensing type.

So what do you all think in regards to giving someone their type, if you know they will be incredibly biased in taking the Sorter? Is it acceptable to type someone if you feel that they'll get a clearer understanding of who they are?

[shytiger]

My Crafter father got INFJ on the Sorter, so I can definitely see that. Artisans are probably the worst at understanding themselves since they are farthest from Idealists, the identity seekers.

I get INTJ on the Sorter pretty consistently but people around here say I'm an Inventor, so go figure.

[Quinta]

I wouldn't go by sorter. I would observe keenly , look at the descriptions and then give feedback pointing out who this person is. Then it's possible to suggest other things typical of the type you are thinking of. See if that gives recognition.

For example, I don't find one of my sisters likely to want to take the sorter. I have, however, seen her enjoyment in doing practical things. So I give feedback as to what I have seen brings her joy. She has a tendency to go into over analyzing when she's stressed and it ends nowhere, it's just an endless stressful description. To start with it may be interesting, as there is a good deal of insight and knowledge in it, but her happiness comes out when she expresses herself through action. Just reminding her of what this means to her, is helpful.

According to observation.

[brian423]

So I have an ethical question for all of you, and I think it's a situation where we can all share our views, experiences, and opinions, logical or illogical (for thinking and feeling types, respectively ).
Is determining someone else's type and telling them immoral or inaccurate in any sense?

....
So what do you all think in regards to giving someone their type, if you know they will be incredibly biased in taking the Sorter? Is it acceptable to type someone if you feel that they'll get a clearer understanding of who they are?

Some day, behavioral genetics will catch up with Keirsey and a person's type will be determined objectively in a lab. Until then, anybody's statement about anybody's type will be a matter of opinion, not fact. Until then, the Sorter will serve as a moderately helpful but crude instrument. Under the circumstances, I don't see why you shouldn't consider yourself as capable as anyone of typing your brother. I see nothing unethical about sharing your educated guesses with him—unless you play head games to force him to agree with you, which doesn't sound characteristic of you. From what I've seen of you on these boards, I think you can trust in your own sensitivity and good intentions. Go ahead and share your thoughts with him. What's the worst that could happen?

[keirsey]

I also don't recommend the Sorter, except as an index into the descriptions. Only by reading a few descriptions, and seeing how they differ, will convince a few people that there are different types. Although, even this method doesn't work on everybody: some people want to be like "everyone" -- they can't decide. (These are mostly Guardians, but many Idealists and Artisans, and even a few Rationals cannot accept that Temperament is "inborn" -- or that they can't be good at anything that they try to be.)

If you can, try to get your brother to read the descriptions that you think he is closest to. Again, emphasize that NO ONE description will fit perfectly, but there should be ONE that fits the best. And, also realize that most individuals not familiar with Keirsey can be easily be confused about themselves, because it takes time for people to assimilate the information -- to start "observing" one's self. Sometimes, a good exercise, is to get someone to "admit" that they "aren't" X,Y, and Z.

For example, I would "hate" to be a Provider Guardian (ESFJ), a Supervisor Guardian (ESTJ), and I "can't" imagine myself as a Promoter Artisan (ESTP).

By the by, I am curious, "I assume that your twin brother is fraternal" -- if not, I really would like know more because someday I would like to start a study of identical twins.

[Cerebro93]

Actually, this is my identical twin brother. He's the elder twin, 33 mins older. Some identical twins are very comfortable with being the same, dressing the same, looking the same, but from a fairly early age, we made it a mission to differentiate.

Our temperament, according to the Temperament Matrix, is completely opposite, as I am an abstract cooperator, and he is a concrete utilitarian. Anything in particular you'd like to know? Differences/similarities in appearance, temperament, self-image, social circles, interests, fields of study, problem solving methods, etc.? If there is anything in particular you'd like to know about for your twin studies, or even all of it, I'm happy to give you as much information as you'd like. As a student of temperament and psychology, and as a twin, I've analyzed our relationship dynamics incessantly, and would love to share anything you wish to know.

An interesting thing to know may be that, after enough observation, I've concluded that my father is an ENTJ, my other an ISFJ, and my older sister (by 2 years) an ENFJ or ESFJ, while I am an INFJ, and my brother is either an ESFP or ESTP. I thought ESFP for the longest time, partially because he's a prodigious jazz drummer, and sometimes has (for lack of better words) infantile outtbursts (cussing, nasty sharp remarks, etc.), however he now LOVES to argue with me when he gets a chance... maybe his introverted thinking surfacing?

[keirsey]

Actually, this is my identical twin brother. He's the elder twin, 33 mins older. Some identical twins are very comfortable with being the same, dressing the same, looking the same, but from a fairly early age, we made it a mission to differentiate.

This fantastic. (Although I don't know what my father's response would be in this situation.) So far I have only encountered, physically, identical twins that seem to be of the same Temperament. However, my sample size has been miniscule, essentially anecdotal. Jodelle (and her sister) are one of my singular examples, they are both Champion Idealists.

We need to talk.

[brian423]

Actually, this is my identical twin brother. He's the elder twin, 33 mins older. Some identical twins are very comfortable with being the same, dressing the same, looking the same, but from a fairly early age, we made it a mission to differentiate.

This fantastic. (Although I don't know what my father's response would be in this situation.) So far I have only encountered, physically, identical twins that seem to be of the same Temperament. However, my sample size has been miniscule, essentially anecdotal. Jodelle (and her sister) are one of my singular examples, they are both Champion Idealists.

We need to talk.

Now is the perfect time for me to wonder out loud about the meeting place of temperament and Judith Rich Harris' work on personality development, especially her book No Two Alike: Human Nature and Human Individuality. It explores the mysteries underlying the fact that identical twins' personalities will turn out just as similar and just as different whether they are raised in the same home or in different homes.

No Two Alike goes beyond her earlier book The Nurture Assumption by positing three systems within a human mind that work together to form a personality: the relationship system, the socialization system, and the status system. I would love to know how these systems work for each temperament. What happens inside these systems to generate madness as DWK understands the phenomenon? Maybe JRH deserves honorable mention at Professor Keirsey's Blog.

[MarmieDearest]

I actually thought I might be an NF Idealist before I read Please Understand Me II and realized the Artisan temperament fit me better.

Even now, I cannot fully decide between ESFP and ISFP. I'm expressive and can "get things going" like an ESFP, and even have the inclination to perform, but socially I think I'm a lot more introverted in spending time by myself, doing quiet things, like writing or watching movies or chatting with people on-line and listening to music. I shop alone and like solitary walks. But if I'm in the right mood and you get me talking, I'll talk your ear off. I also can be competitive like an ESFP. Despite the amount of time I spend quiet and alone, I just don't necessarily seem as non-confrontational as the ISFP, either. I actually adjust and go with the flow a whole lot in daily life, but when I feel strongly about something, watch out!

I tested as ESFP on the on-line sorter.

[stellarrenegade]

I'd definitely say Performer! I'm the same way alot. I sleep, go to work, go to school some days and then come home to Amy and back to my own house to sleep some more and start it all over again. I used to be pretty solitary back in Texas and was planning on changing that when I moved but Amy likes us time and I adapted to that and enjoy it. We did hang out at other people's houses sonetimes though.

It really comes down to expressiveness. I like cracking jokes and stealing the show sometimes at work or school when I feel like it (mostly when I'm not tired, which is most of the time lately) and often do so without thinking.

Keirsey says that Artisans congregate with others only when there's something exciting going on or something fun to do with them. I find this is often true. During the start of the Occupy protests I almost wanted to go downtown and make my own voice clear even though I think that as a movement it was severely misguided and confused.