Scientific Stupidity in Academia

David Mark's politically incorrect views on the past, present, and future. Primary Interest in science, mathematics, history, comparative complexity, very little relationship to Keirsey Temperament except I assume it.

Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby keirsey on Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:12 pm

I discovered the Aquatic Hypothesis a long time ago, and have followed its status, and in some sense still surprised that a "scientific" area (anthropology) of academia is still closed minded, and has been for decades now. So I enjoyed the latest TED talk:

Elaine Morgan's TED Talk.

In context, here is what I thought on July 30, 2005, when I wrote in on my Keirsey Complexity Forum on Yahoo groups.

*******
Last week I visited my family in the yearly get together for two weeks. We hang out at Balboa Island and argue about things, or read. I didn't feel like reading my current book: Sheaves in Geometry and Logic by Sanders MacLane, but picked up one of my father's book in one of his book cases. It was The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis by Elaine Morgan.

Actually I was the one who read the original book Aquatic Ape, gee, maybe 10 years ago. I lost the book (someone borrowed and didn't return it) and I wanted to get another copy -- but I never got one. I had told my father about it and referred to the theory occasionally through the years, and he was intrigued as I was. Luckily he apparently recently got the sequel book. The Aquatic Ape Hypothesis is about human evolution.

To me, the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis is very interesting for several reasons. First, it makes sense. But the second reason is very intriguing -- a kind of mystery that I haven't completely figured out. Why do some scientific truths not get adopted?

Elaine Morgan is the author of Aquatic Ape Hypothesis -- she is a journalist, not a scientist. The original book, the Aquatic Ape, was controversial, and the famous (or other) anthropologists didn't pick it up and most were dismissive or actively hostile. (Hey it isn't their theory). The reigning Savannah hypothesis seemed solid to them. There were a couple of anthropologists in the forties and fifties that introduced the aquatic concept: the transition from the Last Common Ancestor of primates to hominids might involve an isolated offshoot of primates that had been (trapped?) in a watery environment -- hence the "aquatic" ape. Elaine Morgan picked up the idea, gathered the arguments, and presented it in the Aquatic Ape.

Ok, there are many stories of non-acceptance of theories: Margulis, Wegner, Boltzmann, etc. But these are scientists and they eventually overcame the resistance of the scientific community once the theory became substantive. In the case of the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis it is strange that a hypothesis that is so obviously right but has no visible support in any part of the scientific community.

There were some problems with the original hypothesis, but Morgan has essentially fixed those problems in her second book. Some of the
criticism directed at some of the original was justified, but she used the criticism like one should, she changed the part that was incorrect and built a stronger case. To me the evidence that she presents in the current (1997) Aquatic Ape Hypothesis is overwhelming: I have no doubts.

The reaction to this hypothesis reminds me of the academic reaction to my father's work in temperament. Primarily ignoring it plus some
basic hostility to it. It seems that science has difficulty when there is no academic base from which things start. Without graduate students, even the truth seems to have trouble catching on. I am not sure why there isn't one graduate student brave enough to buck the science community.
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby Quinta on Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:08 am

To me as a lay person in biology, Elaine Morgan seems convincing.

As to the acceptance of KTT, I wonder if some of the problem could have to do with the case that the developer is a Designer, the most capable of complex theory building. What made me think of this, was a remark from a researcher in psychiatry, trying to duplicate the results of finnish psychologist Jaakko Seikkula. The reseacher said with a sigh that he didn't seem to be as able as Seikkula when it came to dealing with the complexity in these types of talks. KTT may have a good explanation as to why.
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby Goodrum on Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:59 am

That's incredible, (as in wonderful), I want to read this book by her. And I'll find somewhere to run the TED. Elaine Morgan, so pleased to meet you. Thanks.

Maybe it is something to do with that thing of some people wanting to be "right?"

Then some others follow, momentum, and then they get that far down their "right" path they think there is no way back. The hostility is method of operandus, attempting to ignore, bully or intimidate or ridicule/belittle those that might offer contrasting work and ideas.

At the end of the day, the people in science, healthcare fields, investing, animal training are just...human. Foibles and all. Block blinkers are so frustrating. A shame, they miss out on so much of the richness of what discoveries and theory has to offer. Selective starvation of the mind.

Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer
Last edited by Goodrum on Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would start with stripping down to what fundamentally informs my life, which is that I'm a seeker on the path...where I stand spiritually is, steadfastly, on a path about love.. (Bell Hooks)
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby mkb32 on Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:54 am

keirsey wrote: I am not sure why there isn't one graduate student brave enough to buck the science community.


tease :mrgreen:
I shall be Phoenix ... just for the record ... I can raise the house...
ANNNND I really do want to get a hold of that Wolverine guy...
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby christina on Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:26 am

So, her idea was rejected simply because she's not part of the scientific community? :shock: Wow. Lot of hostility in the field.....


Without graduate students, even the truth seems to have trouble catching on. I am not sure why there isn't one graduate student brave enough to buck the science community.


But! But, But, But! Large mobs are scary :shock: :o :o :o :o


Who was it, was it Plato who was sentenced to death for corrupting the young? :mrgreen: I only tease :lol:
Whoever is spared personal pain must feel himself called to help in diminishing the pain of others. We must all carry our share of the misery which lies upon the world. — Albert Schweitzer
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby keirsey on Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:41 pm

Socrates was forced to drink hemlock, it was Plato who related the story.
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby ENFP123 on Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:11 pm

What's the temperament layout within the academia?
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby jwetmore on Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:12 am

keirsey wrote:I discovered the Aquatic Hypothesis a long time ago, and have followed its status, and in some sense still surprised that a "scientific" area (anthropology) of academia is still closed minded, and has been for decades now. So I enjoyed the latest TED talk:


David, you know the answer to this mystery is in the memes.

The questions I would ask are:

What attributes provide the fitness of established memes despite new, better evidence and explanations?

What attributes of human intellegence, evolution, and temperament contribute to the herd/schooling/flocking behavior that makes it so difficult for individuals to leave the comfort of an established meme?

As Architects we are perhaps the least able of the tecmperaments to understand the follow the crowd and safety in numbers behavior that is so prevalent in our culture, society, and acadamia (and nature).

As an arrogant Architect I would suggest that few individuals really think for themselves and fewer still have sound knowledge to make judgements on the validity of rational and scientific arguments. (But that's just the Architect in me talking.)

It seems clear that there is a fittness advantage in many situations that favors following the crowd rather than thinking indidendently. Hayek said (paraphrased), "Progess is only made by the indivdual doing what the crowd urges him not to." (I think Hayek was Architect - possibly a Mastermind.)
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby keirsey on Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:57 am

This issue, in my view is extremely important to do a detailed analysis.

Jay's questions and comments are right on. As I would say to my father (to his consternation) -- "Yes, and it's more complicated."

One of my key areas of research is on "the evolution of ideas" -- I think a Kuhnian view, but a more modern and detailed, a disciplined approach to figuring out what is going on -- and more importantly try to predict what most likely needs to happen for the phase transition to occur. This analysis should also predict the kinds of conceptual innovations (or new areas of technology) that could be a tipping point, or how the "bone" people need to die.
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Re: Scientific Stupidity in Academia

Postby keirsey on Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:15 am

ENFP123 wrote:What's the temperament layout within the academia?


I suspect that academia is significantly biased against Artisans and the "layout" is more "filtered" (there is more significant pooling of temperaments). Rationals are pooling in the sciences, but remember "we" are only 5-10 percent of the general population, so Guardians still dominate institutions, no matter what. Idealists are probably more numerous in the humanities, but again -- Guardians and even Artisans probably dominate there too. (I really don't have much feel for this since I avoided the Humanities and the Arts like the plague in my university experience).
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