Those Arrogant Rationals: We Resemble that Remark!

[keirsey]

Me!? Arrogant?

Although most people do not take glee in being perceived as being “arrogant,” many male Rationals will admit they are not particularly bothered as being perceived as arrogant – because they are arrogant. No sense in denying the facts. My question is to female Rationals, do you feel that you are arrogant too, despite yourself?

“Rationals are wont to think of themselves as the prime movers who must pit their utilitarian ways and means against custom and tradition, in an endless struggle to bring efficiency and goal-directness to enterprise, an attitude regarded by many as arrogant” [Please Understand Me II, page 169]

There are two ways to view the arrogant Rationals. Others can detect the arrogance of Rationals because Rationals don’t mean to be arrogant, but they can’t help it, and they can rub the other temperaments the wrong way because of their lack of tact and guile. Hence Inventors, Fieldmarshals, Masterminds, and Architects are most *visibly* arrogant in that order. (Typically, of course)

Inventors tend to exhibit their "cleverness" and often don’t hide their impatience with others not as quick on the uptake, hence they appear to be the most arrogant to others. Howard Hughes was an iconic Inventor, and for those not familiar with him, the movie the Aviator is a great movie to see, as an illustration of a brilliant Inventor. The arrogance of the Fieldmarshals is usually more implied and subtle, for they must take charge at work, being sure of themselves in enterprise. Examples, General Douglas MacArthur was famous for his well deserved confidence, but couldn’t hide his arrogance; and Neutron Jack (GE CEO Jack Welch) knew he was right, being too blunt, so earning his well deserved sobriquet. The Masterminds are behind the scene; they actually have the strongest will and demand incredible things from themselves. They know that others can not achieve the level of expertise they have obtained, and do not expect as much, hence a hint of arrogance. Moreover, they typically don’t exhibit their arrogance, except in their own area of expertise. Their motto is “I could be wrong, but I doubt it.”

All Rationals naturally see clearly mankind’s foibles, for they are the natural skeptics. And, they are their own worst critics of themselves. They do not expect or demand other people to be the same as them, so they don’t often really “deserve” being called arrogant, but they are arrogant, nevertheless.

For true arrogance – unseen by most non-Rationals, the order is the opposite: Architects are the most arrogant. You wouldn’t know it, unless you asked them, or you mistakenly wander into their domain of expertise. In the order of true arrogance, next are the Masterminds, then Fieldmarshals, and lastly Inventors. The often unspoken “hierarchy” of hard of science and technology gives us a hint of this phenomenon. Many Engineers are intimidated by Scientists including Physicists, who are intimidated by Mathematicians. (Mathematicians are intimidated by mathematics and Physicists.)

In reality, many Architects have the "humble" goal of understanding the world, and realize that most are faking understanding. We know that we understand better than anybody else, although we don’t say it – hence the humbleness. But, as my father has said, “If this is arrogance, then at least it is not vanity, and without question it has driven the design engineers to take the lead in molding the structure of civilization.”

When asked what if he had been wrong in his theory of relativity, Einstein replied, “too bad for reality.” He knew he was right, logic dictated it.

[tatadd07]

As a female architect rational... I've been told by some of my friends that when first meeting me, they thought I was a bit arrogant. Other people have mistaken my being shy for being "stuck up" when I am far from it. My friend is a rational as well and he likes to joke with me that my arrogance makes me come off as very dominant. I find that even though he's male and I'm female, we're very, VERY much alike. I admit, I do tend to take charge of situations when everyone else is just standing around. Over the years I've learned to turn it down some and let others take the lead where my fieldmarshall friend I mentioned before plays his up to intimidate others so that he always gets his way.

I have the saying... "I may make mistakes but I'm never wrong." I guess you could say that is my rational personality at its best (or worst) LOL!

Overall, I think because women are still taught to be polite and politically correct (well... at least I was. I'm not so sure about it these days) it tames our arrogance somewhat where men are taught to be strong providers and it's more acceptable for them to be arrogant.

[jsx1000ny]

When asked what if he had been wrong in his theory of relativity, Einstein replied, “too bad for reality.” He knew he was right, logic dictated it. - DMK

Freud was nine-tenths quack, and there is sound reason for believing that even Einstein will not hold up: in the long run his curved space may be classed with the psychosomatic bumps of Gall and Spurzheim.” - H.L. Mencken

At least regarding Freud, Mencken seems to have been on to something:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Eysenck

Einstein may be a different story.

Overall, I think because women are still taught to be polite and politically correct (well... at least I was. I'm not so sure about it these days) it tames our arrogance somewhat where men are taught to be strong providers and it's more acceptable for them to be arrogant.

I have good news for you. I think a 'Dominant' woman will eventually reveal herself as dominant. Regardless of whether she is "socially programmed" to say 'please' more so than the man she's talking to.

I think Temperament, Gender, and Genetics have more to do with who is "Dominant" than social constructs.

Briefly:

1) Temperament : Depending on the matrix of temperaments interacting, you're going to have people who are naturally more dominant in a social situation based purely off of their temperament. Certain temperaments are more pragmatic, or more cooperative. Certain temperaments "do what is right," others "what works." Certain "Exploitative," others "receptive." Throw in extroversion/ introversion, etc., and you have an "unfair advantage" right off the bat, confined at the temperament level only. I have not seen the Keirsey's state this publicly. This is my own conclusion.

2) Gender: Men are naturally, by their sex and biology, more aggressive and dominant-prone. Men are 'success objects' and naturally strong providers. This is not always the case. But "the exceptions don't make the rule."

3) Genetic - Whether you call it "leadership potential" or "rank potential" certain people have genetic inheritances higher on personality tendencies that lend themselves towards dominance. Conversely, other people have genetic inheritances which trend toward submission, altruism, etc.

I would put Social Constructs/Morality as a fourth "overlay" in priority over these first three.

I don't doubt Social Constructs has a certain influence. Especially, if someone has a certain IQ level, cannot discern for themselves what is going on, and is a lifelong passive receptacle of the media, school etc.

But if one has a decent IQ, + a temperament and genetic inheritance that lends itself towards dominance, it's hard for me to believe social constructs will usurp all this.

"The self is always shining through."

[mkb32]

Very thought provocking post!

I can dig it!

[jwetmore]

As more evidence of Rationals need to quibble, the correct quote is, "I could be wrong, but I don't think so." Adrian Monk.

I have often been labled as aloof. I assume this is because of my initial role as an observer rather than as what others think of as an active participant. In political situations (leadership in organizations or work groups) I am especially vulnerable, to those who view me as a rival, to the charge that I am arrogant. Those who do not know me well are easily convinced. More often than seems reasonable, individuals who were told that I was arrogant will come to me after a selection and appologize for thinking wrongly about about me based on another persons agenda.

So, am I arogant, or just miss understood? As an Architect Rational, I have a strong desire to find the truth. But, I am not sure a unified, all encompassing truth is knowable. I believe we are only able to find pieces of the truth. I am extremely skeptical of those who claim to know better, as their knowledge and thought process seems to not stand up to my own limited knowledge. Perhaps we should all be humble, but some need to be more humble than others.

This desire to search for truth, and also to measure the limitations of those who claim to know the truth is one of the reasons for my fascination with memes. The fitness of a meme has no relationship to its communication of truth, or even of its utility to the individual. This view fits in with Benjamin Franklin's advice that in order to presuade another, appeal to his interests, not to reason. It also links to one of my favorite quotes, "The purpose of oratory is persausion, not truth."

[tatadd07]

I agree very much with temperament, gender, and genetics playing a large role in whether a person is "dominant" or not.

I won't deny that temperament is one of the biggest influence on my "personality". When it comes down to it, I do think that those three factors make the most impact on the way a person is but I do not take social constructs lightly either. Do I agree with social constructs? Not a chance, but it's also part of "the game of life". I suppose I was mainly think about business/workplace situations.

At work and being out in public in general is where the social constructs come into play. The people that I deal with each day while at work changes by the minute and I have to adjust the way that I interact with each person so that I do not offend them.

Of course this is the part where someone says that my temperament probably does not match my job as a Nurse Practitioner. The nurse is looked at as the ultimate "nurturer" occupation (far from the Rational profile), but never rule out the science needed to do the job. That's what attracted me to that career. I am always learning something new and a majority of the time- I'm in charge.

So... I'm not saying that social constructs prevail over temperament, gender, and genetics by any means, I just mentioned that it does play a role in the overall scheme of life.

[tatadd07]

As more evidence of Rationals need to quibble, the correct quote is, "I could be wrong, but I don't think so." Adrian Monk.

As for the quibbling about the quote... I was not quoting anyone in particular but feel free to quibble all you want.

And back to the initial discussion, I am just getting into this whole temperament analysis subject. I'm sure there are a lot of elements to the temperament types that I've yet to touch on but I plan on educating myself on it further and using it to assist me in understanding how the different temperaments influence the way that people act and think.

[mkb32]

I have been told that I am arrogant especially by various co-workers and my ex-husband.

This is interesting to me because at the times I was "called" on this behavior, I was in shock.
I couldn't decide what part of my behavior was "arrogant".

One thing I do know for sure is that, I HATE to be wrong about a subject that I am interested in and have investigated. I have caught myself arguing a point until nobody cares anymore except me, and then there is no joy in being correct.
Can anybody relate to this?

[ENFP123]

I have been told that I am arrogant especially by various co-workers and my ex-husband.

This is interesting to me because at the times I was "called" on this behavior, I was in shock.
I couldn't decide what part of my behavior was "arrogant".

One thing I do know for sure is that, I HATE to be wrong about a subject that I am interested in and have investigated. I have caught myself arguing a point until nobody cares anymore except me, and then there is no joy in being correct.
Can anybody relate to this?

I'm pretty much the same way.

[tatadd07]

I have been told that I am arrogant especially by various co-workers and my ex-husband.

This is interesting to me because at the times I was "called" on this behavior, I was in shock.
I couldn't decide what part of my behavior was "arrogant".

One thing I do know for sure is that, I HATE to be wrong about a subject that I am interested in and have investigated. I have caught myself arguing a point until nobody cares anymore except me, and then there is no joy in being correct.
Can anybody relate to this?

In the Idealist Portrait of the Champion on keirsey.com it mentions "Champions often can't wait to tell others of their extraordinary experiences. Champions can be tireless in talking with others, like fountains that bubble and splash, spilling over their own words " Your excessive chatter may be seen as boasting, thus making you appear arrogant. I think we all do this from time to time no matter what our temperament is.