Netflix original drama Mindhunter premiered on October 13th, 2017.
#Mindhunter has been renewed for a second season.
rottentomatoes: 96%
metacritic: 78
imdb: 8.8
emmys: 1 nomination
Kimmy Schmidt
Molly Carter
Fleabag
Leonard Hofstadter
Raj Koothrappali
Manny Delgado
Holden Ford
FBI agents Holden Ford, Bill Tench, and Wendy Carr pioneer an academic undertaking of studying convicted serial killers in order to better understand their unconvicted counterparts.
“Agent Ford, FBI. Special Agent Holden Ford. Is he talking? On the way over. Five people still in there? Mr. Miller! No, thank you. Hey, Cody. My name is Holden. I’d like to help you. Tell me what’s going on. All right. I understand. For the moment, is there anything else we can get you? Okay. Okay… if I can get them to back off, will you… relax with Ms. Curtwell? Give us some time to reach your wife. Thank you. Keep the snipers. Back out the perimeter. They’re making me nervous. Imagine what they’re doing to him. He has no criminal history. He’s clearly having an episode. We need to keep him calm and wear him down. Get ride of those reporters. How am I doing? Oh, God. Yes, I can see you! I can see that you’re naked. I can see that you’re cold. Is there a phone? Can we get him on the line? That was his demand, talk to his wife? I want her to calm him. You’re not bringing her. Her presence might have the opposite effect. Hi, Mrs. Miller? Don’t get out. I’m Holden Ford from the FBI. Do you understand the situation? What happened this morning? Was he delusional? Violent? Did the doctor diagnose him? What kind of medication? You tried to get him sanctioned? You gave him an ultimatum? This is not your fault. Not that we know about. I’m sending you along for now. Have someone call his doctor. Get his wife to tell him she won’t leave him. We need more information. Let’s see if we can get him on the line. Cody! Everything okay in there? I’d really like to know what’s going on in there. I promise you, we can work this out. It’s a difficult situation. Taking a while to get here here. That’s not it. She is very worried about you. On the phone. Maybe you could talk to her on the phone. I understand your frustration. Not being able to communicate with a trusted love one. What do you want to say to her? Maybe I can help.” — Holden Ford
“Thank you. He thought he was invisible. If I did everything by the book, it begs the question– you’re putting me out to pasture. Despite what happened. Thank you, sir… but I’d rather not.” — Holden Ford
“This is how we find ourselves completely out of control. The fugitive has already killed a police officer that morning in Austin. He’s taken two nine-millimeter rounds in the ass, grabbed a ten-year-old boy as a hostage, and he’s holed up in a suburban neighborhood crawling with women and small children. Now we must focus on one thing: de-escalation. San Antonio’s chief of police arrives and starts using a bullhorn, which more than effectively intimidates our hostage-taker. Coming at anyone with an attitude of ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ assumes that they’re of a rational mind. We must establish communication. Non-threatening communication. Ascertain demands, concede nothing, reject nothing, just listen. Listen to what he has to say. Try understanding him instead of trying to dominate him. Look for common ground. Find commonality. And if it feels like you’re buying time, well… that’s because you are. But it’s the key to making any perp feel heard. Our goal is no body bags. That is the hostage negotiator win-win. And I’m in my office on Friday for anyone who has questions about the psychological strategies exam.” — Holden Ford
“Excuse me, Professor Rathman? Holden Ford, Hostage Negotiation. I listen in on your class earlier. What you were saying about crime today… I don’t know, it really resonates. Gets attention. Were you teaching this before Berkowitz? What got you started? It’s as if… we don’t know anymore what moves people to kill one another. It’s a different era. No more ‘just the facts, ma’am.’ Crime has changed. Do you… want to grab a beer?” — Holden Ford
“National Guard killing four college students. Watergate. Is that what all this is about? Just a response to turmoil? The world barely makes any sense, so it follows that crime doesn’t either. I don’t know either. But we’re supposed to, right? We are. Thank you.” — Holden Ford
“Hey. I like your outfit. What is that, a jumpsuit? What do you call that? Stylish. Is he a Mormon? So does mine. He bought me this suit, as a matter of fact. Yes. I have one brown pair and one black pair. I’ve got sneakers, but I had to buy those myself. Are you coming on to me? You having a good time? Huh! Happy birthday. How old are you? You don’t look old enough to be in here. FBI, actually. Special Agent Holden Ford. Can you tell? I have one, but I’m not gonna show it to you. I’m a teacher. Right up the road at Quantico. Hostage negotiation, such as it is. You really think I look like a narc? I don’t see it. Well, I’m not here to… infiltrate the Black Panthers. You’ve got the wrong idea about me. Maybe. Yes, actually. I was a– I was a brick agent there for a couple of years. Sure. They always sold liquor. The whole furniture thing was just a front that started during Prohibition. Everywhere. I grew up in the Midwest, but I was born in Brooklyn. You don’t seem like a girl from Corktown. Buy you a drink?” — Holden Ford
“So you’re a student? What’s your thing? Masters? You do not seem like a bookworm. I mean… good to know. What is that? I know what deviancy is. It’s an occupational hazard. So he’s an anarchist. Well… maybe one of the things wrong with our society, is all the criminality. I get that. Boy, you are hard to work. That outfit doesn’t indicate, you know, the half of it. Easier than this. Why don’t you give me a reading list? Wait, what? You know, I used to go undercover. Vice-rings, drug-gangs… the counter-culture… would you please stop? You’re relentless! Can’t we just go someplace where we could talk? No… what’s your name? Is that a trick question? Are you serious? No, that’s completely inappropriate. Oh, Jesus, you’re not gonna drink and drive are you?” — Holden Ford
“Mostly corralling army deserters. Guys AWOL from Vietnam trying to get to Canada. Too scared to go back. Young guys. Same age I was. There’s worse things than being a snitch. God, you are making me nervous. What are you, some kind of honey trap? I’ve been warned to watch out for women like you. Okay.”
“So they were both homosexuals, but he was married, and his boyfriend wanted to become a woman, which is confusing. It was mixed up. No, I really liked it. It was just so… sad. He was obviously very disturbed, but somehow I liked him. Yeah. Empathy. I really liked the dialogue. It was just very real. When I started at the academy, they would send women out of the room if there was any of that talk. They called it ‘deviant terminology.’ We even had a list of words we had to memorize. You know… fuck, shit, pussy… blow job.” — Holden Ford
“University of Virginia in Charlottesville. Contemporary Applied Criminal Psychology. Ratchet things up a notch. We need to know the current academic thinking. I’m not saying rely, just get updated. That was five years ago. What’s the thinking now? Well, they must know something. No. What’s a ‘backroom boy?’ We should be using every resource we can. Talking to the smartest people we find from the broadest possible spectrum. Otherwise, it’s like the military. So did the military. Hoover died over five years ago, and we’re still recruiting accountants and lawyers like it’s 1946. Well, then we’re in trouble. Are you sure you want me doing that?” — Holden Ford
“Do you mind if I sit? You know, I wasn’t aware of that project at Bellevue. Where I come from, criminals are always born that way. It lets us off the hook. What’s your name again? I’m sorry. Is it Leon? Holden. Holden Ford. Yeah. I’ve noticed some of the looks I’ve been getting. Well, I’m not a spy. This isn’t some kind of cover. I’m actually an instructor too, but I’m just here to learn. And I’m here to talk to people like you. I want to start a dialogue with you. I’m an instructor in the Bureau’s training and recruitment program out of Quantico. And we really need to hear from people like you. Just to hear you perspectives and your insights. I’m sorry. You call yourself a professor of criminal psychology. But you won’t even talk to the educational arm of the FBI?” — Holden Ford
“Do these fucking hippies seriously believe that they’re worthy of an enormously costly, labor-intensive federal surveillance operation? Don’t you think that the traditional counterculture-law enforcement enmity is a little old hat by now? Frankly, I’m surprised to have aroused such a degree of fucking neuroses amongst supposedly intelligent people.” — Holden Ford
“Okay. So what are they doing wrong? They’re making him scared. We do not want him scared. We want him calm. The guy is robbing a bank to pay for a sex change for his boyfriend. He wants a helicopter with a piano. But more than anything, he wants to talk to his wife. Complicated, right? Trust me on this. Always expect complicated.” — Holden Ford
“Okay, I need you to concentrate. Think of an opening salvo, then think where it could lead. No right or wrong answers, just use your imagination and see where it takes you. Start whenever you like. Go ahead. That’s good. That’s fine. Keep it going. Just whatever comes into your head. Wait, wait a minute. What is all that? We don’t need to get into that. Forget vernacular. In real life, people just press their demands. All right? Okay, good. Important not to talk to a divorced man about his children. Different tactic. Okay, let’s dial it back a little. Great question. Psychologically preparing you for reality. And the reality is, you have to talk to them. Somebody demands the impossible, you can’t just shoot him. Well, because that is a tactical response for when all else fails. Okay, but wouldn’t you like to try something different? Or would you rather use firearms all the time? Why?” — Holden Ford
“It’s just role-playing in a simulated hostage situation. Simulated. They’re improvising. They’re learning to create a dialogue. It’s not really about the cursing. Well, in criminal psych, role-playing exercises are considered a valuable tool, with or without cursing. They can help? Okay, good idea. Okay. Thank you, yes.” — Holden Ford
“Hi. Oh, great to meet you. Interesting guy. I was kind of disturbed by what he said. Yes. Please. Oh, uh… I don’t smoke when I eat. I don’t smoke when I don’t eat either. So did Shepard talk to you about my thing? What does that mean? I hear that. UVA. Twenty-nine. I was hoping it would give me some authority. Yeah, well, I’m there, so I might as well make myself useful. I guess I’m busy working my way sideways. No. What does that mean? Oh… is that bad? I’m just trying to be a better instructor. Would you want some help with that?” — Holden Ford
“Nothing. Did you orgasm? You could be faking, right? I can’t even tell if a woman is interested. That is not the same thing. Are you my girlfriend? I don’t know. Are you? I just didn’t want to presume anything. Does it make you uncomfortable… sleeping with a federal agent? Does it turn you on? Then why are you with me? Okay. Well, thank you. I have to get up early. Tomorrow’s the first day of school.” — Holden Ford
“What happened? When I’m involved in a hostage negotiation, the perpetrator is standing right in front of me, but I have to gauge how much destruction he’s capable of, what in his background or personal life that could’ve triggered today’s standoff. Crazy in that they have no reason for what they do? Okay. But keep in mind, often, this crazy person has never done anything like this before. Good, a switch. Anybody know what flips it? Fired. Yes. Absolutely. A romantic breakup is a top trigger. When we know who the criminal is, we can understand what set him off. Why do we behave the way we do? It’s a question asked by poets, and philosophers, and theologians since time immemorial. The playground of Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky, Freud. The stuff of Crime and Punishment and Beyond the Pleasure Principal. The greatest minds in history have been fascinated by the vagaries of behavior. So, in a case where we can’t immediately divine a motive, we shouldn’t panic. It’s a riddle, but it can be solved. It’s complex, but… it’s human. By Freud? Actually, it’s where he looks for human impulses beyond sex, specifically the death drive. Freud suggests that there’s an innate desire for destruction, based on the propensity for matter to return– well… we’ve always looked at motive as need or greed, right? Exactly. But let’s say, while he’s at it, he steals your wife’s panties, too. Well, he’s not selling those. So why does he do it? Is it merely prurient? Our new quest, like Freud, is to look beyond what we assume are obvious impulses.” — Holden Ford
“They don’t want to learn. What are we even doing here? What’s wrong with complicated? We used to do this experiment in social psychology. You get into a crowded elevator, and you face the opposite direction, the back of the elevator, and everybody freaks out. They’re uncomfortable for reasons they can’t even articulate. But if you turn around and face the front, everybody relaxes. What do we have in common? What unites us? What keeps us all awake at night?” — Holden Ford
“Monster. Right? I think we can all agree. But what do you really know about him? Did you know that his mother was a jailbird and a prostitute? Did you know when he was ten years old, she palmed him off onto his sadistic, Bible-thumping uncle who beat him within an inch of his life and taunted him to act like a man? Charles responded to that by becoming a pimp and an armed robber, and was incarcerated for over 20 years, where he continued to be brutalized. In 1967, he was paroled, during the summer of love. And our nightmare began. Here we have a child who was unwanted, unloved, regularly beaten, and repeatedly institutionalized. Now, might this not have had some sort of an effect on him? What way? Can we be a little more specific? Technically, he didn’t kill anybody. That’s a little bit Old Testament, don’t you think? Good, evil, black, white, it’s easy. But who in this room has a life that’s easy? Circumstances affect behavior. When we look at Manson’s background, the real question is, how could we not have seen this coming? I’m sorry? Okay, but I’m saying maybe, just maybe, locking him up his young life helped make him what he was. Okay, guys, I’m not asking anybody to feel sorry for Charles Manson. Nobody has all the answers. We should be asking questions. You were LAPD? You worked Manson?” — Holden Ford
“They completely missed my point. Oh, shit. Not a problem. We’ve seen reporters. What’s on your mind, Frank? How can we help? He could have problems with sex. Well… the fact that the killer left nothing behind is interesting. It must have been premeditated to a degree. He had gloves, he cleaned up after himself. Or she just caught his eye. Why make the boy watch? That’s a good point. Is this crime about the woman or about the child? I was just posing questions. The broomstick. Is it the same broomstick she used to sweep the church steps? He might not be a congregant, maybe someone just passing through, but the church could be significant. With the idea of service. I think that there’s a passage in Mark. Something about the ‘son of man.’ All I’m saying is, the broom may mean something. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t understand it. We can’t help you with this. We are in the dark here. We don’t know any more than you do. I’m sorry we wasted your time.”
“We are. I have studied everything we have. I’ve taken this ride here, listened to everything you’ve been kind enough to teach, but we’re talking about something we don’t understand in the slightest. Ada and her son were killed for reasons we are simply not equipped to understand. It wasn’t lust murder. It wasn’t some random thrill killer who was born bad, and it wasn’t a pantie thief who wanted to change things up. It was an aberration. Well, maybe we should. Our job is to give him something he could not have figured out himself. No disrespect. At the moment, I don’t think we can say anything to McGraw with any certainty. I was born in New York, but it’s kind of a mixed bag. I agree with you. It’s been one step forward, two steps back. I do now, Bill, as it happens. Okay. It sounds okay, Bill.” — Holden Ford
“Mr. Brudos… we are conducting interviews witht people who’ve been convicted of violent crimes. What you discuss with us cannot be used against you in your applications– electronics these days keep getting smaller. See that little shiny part on the top? What you discuss with us cannot be used against you in your applications for parole. We will be asking you about your family history, antecedent behavior, and thought patterns surrounding the crimes you’ve been convicted of. Our goal is to eventually publish a statistical analysis which will not include your name.” — Holden Ford
Unit Chief Shepard
“You followed procedure. You did your job. You did everything by the book. He took hostages. He knew there’d be consequences. You’re not his shrink. That’s not your remit. These things happen in real time, and we are the last responders. If an operation’s gonna go south, this is not the worst outcome. Stay focused on what we do. This place is pretty much the benchmark for excellence in law enforcement. In the rest of the world, hostage negotiation’s on its way out. You think the Israelis bothered to negotiate at Entebbe last year? You didn’t lose one hostage or bystander. That’s how we measure success. And your courses are a big hit in the summer. I actually think you should be teaching more. No. I’m putting you to work where it really counts. Because of what happened, Holden. It seasoned you. Well, this is awkward. I’d like you to sleep on it over the weekend… because you start full-time on Monday.” — Chief Shepard
“Where do you propose you would go? Studying what? What exactly is it you think you’re missing out on? No, you don’t want to rely on academics, Holden. We just got updated. It’s all in the library. 1972, everything was new. Okay, look. There have been some fine psychological studies over the years, but these are people who don’t understand the criminal mind. They understand their corner of the world, which is a very small corner. I’m going to level with you. I’m going to tell you something I really don’t want you to repeat. As far as the bureau is concerned, psychology is for backroom boys. You understand what I’m trying to say? It’s just frowned upon. And we do. Hey, we recruited Elvis. The king doesn’t do it for you? Actually, recruitment has tapered off. We can’t get accountants. All right. I’ll scratch your back and recommend funding for you to audit a few classes, but you will be expected to use the opportunity for recruitment. Speakers, lecturers, great minds. You’re smart, you’re idealistic… more than a little sensitive. They’re gonna love you.” — Chief Shepard
“Holden, I enjoyed that immensely. What do you call that? Stimulated? All that profanity, is that an academic thing? How is all that cursing creating a dialogue? I’m sure it’s all quite modern and fashionable in academic circles, but it seems very theatrical to me. I think we have enough exercises here at the academy. If you’re going to start implementing new ones, talk to somebody in the Behavioral Science Unit. They can go over the soundness of psychology. That’s their thing. Why don’t I set that up?” — Chief Shepard
Rational.
Bill Tench
“Holden, right? Holden Ford? Bill Tench. Behavioral Science. You had a beer with Peter Rathman? You were, huh? Can we sit? Smoke? Want to go outside? He did his best. He can be pretty old school. I call this place ‘the country club,’ because, you know, it can be a little starchy sometimes. You went back to college, right? How old are you, 26, 27? That’s interesting. Lots of guys your age don’t want to go back to school because they feel it undermines their authority. He’s got you doing recruitment, right? Most guys don’t want to get stuck doing recruitment. They’re busy working their way upwards. You are what they call a ‘blue flamer.’ You know what that is? You’re so eager to do good, you have a big, blue flame shooting out of your asshole. Just take it slow. You’ll get there in the end. Right. Well, I was thinking about that. I started this thing a couple of years ago. I go on the road and give classes in various police departments from Buffalo, New York to San Diego, California. There’s a million cops out there who want to know what we know. So I go to them, give them a distillation of what we teach here, and they tell me what they’ve been doing. They learn something, and I learn something firsthand by getting involved on their level. But it’s a big job, you know? I’m up to my neck in local law enforcement. Maybe we could help each other.” — Bill Tench
“Today might be a baptism of fire. They’re gonna be on edge. Just follow my lead. They caught a big case and they’re spooked. Don’t talk to any reporters. And please, for God’s sake, don’t say we’re from the FBI. No idea what you’re talking about. We’re here for something else. We’re instructors. Do we look like we’re from the Methodist church? Make a hole. Good to see ya.” — Bill Tench
“Motive, means, opportunity. The three pillars of criminal investigation for the last century. But it’s 1977, and suddenly motive is elusive. What, why, who. ‘What happened?’ Why did it happen that way?’ Which should lead to: ‘Who did it?’ A person is murdered. Not sexually assaulted, not robbed. But the body is mutilated posthumously. The question is not only why did the killer do it, but why did the killer do it this way? We are now talking about… psychology. In a homicide situation, we do the inverse. We ask, ‘what happened? Why did it happen that way?’ Which narrows the search for who did it. But what if our killer is someone who’s not rational? Thank you, Holden. That was very… illuminating. He could be motivated by something even he doesn’t understand.” — Bill Tench
“Don’t make it too complicated. There’s complicated and there’s too complicated, Holden. Uh-huh. What was that? Okay. Well, how do we do that? What Holden’s trying to say is maybe it’s both. The one impacting on the other in a vicious circle. We have some answers.” — Bill Tench
“Figure out who you’re talking to before you sell a sob story about little Chucky Manson. They wrote ‘pigs’ on the wall in their victim’s blood. In the future, ask if anyone’s worked a case before you bring it up. Know your fucking audience. It’s okay, they always do this. Just be a good listener. Ada Jeffries and her boy. Rough one. No, by all means. Bother us. How’d he get in? In a rooming house? This falls clearly into the category of lust murder. By that I mean it’s sexually motivated. It’s more about sexual gratification through the annihilation of another. Did you find semen? In the victims? He didn’t rape them. Could narrow things with your suspects. He was a witness. It’s hard to tell from just the photos. We need more time to go over this. Can I get these back to you?” — Bill Tench
“In the dark, huh? I was trying to help you. If you don’t like it, go back to your college kids and we’ll forget about it. Let me tell you something about aberrant behavior. It’s fucking aberrant. If we understood it, we’d be aberrant too. Fortunately, it’s not incumbent upon us to write a dissertation. Why? I am sticking my neck out for you. Let me ask you something. Where are you from? Okay. Well, that’s what you are right now, a mixed bag. A little college education, some experience on the street, some insight, a lot of horseshit. Let me ask you something else. Do you have a girlfriend? Okay. So next time you’re a long way from home and you flip your shit, you find a pay phone and you tell it to your girlfriend. Okay? How’s that sound?” — Bill Tench
“Listen, Benjamin. We’re from a particular unit of the FBI. We investigate murders when there’s a sexual angle. It may be unpleasant, but it’s what we do.” — Bill Tench
Deborah Mitford
“Hey. What are you looking at? This? I call it a jumpsuit. What do you call that? You look like a Mormon. You look like my dad. No, but he looks like one. Did he buy you those nice shiny shoes? What kind of grown-up lets their parents choose their clothes for them? How do you like my approach? I will be. It’s my birthday today. Twenty-four. What are you, a narc? Wow. Everybody can tell. You got a gun? Nuts. What do you teach? Holy cow. Are you kidding? You stick out like a sore thumb. Those guys are hardly Black Panthers. They’re engineering students. You should go talk to them. I’m sure the FBI’s in need of some great-looking black dudes. You gonna book me? Handcuffs? I’m here to see this really cool band from Detroit. You ever been to Detroit? I can’t believe they’re here. They used to play PJ’s in Corktown. You know Corktown? It looked like a furniture store. Where are you really from? But the Midwest, right? You do not seem like a guy from New York.” — Debbie Mitford
“Post grad. Sociology. On my way to a Ph.D. Thanks. No, it’s ok. I like playing against type. So what do you think about Durkheim’s labeling theory on deviancy? You don’t know who Durkheim is? I bet you do. We’re looking at it in one of my classes. Durkheim says all forms of deviancy are simply a challenge to the normalized repressiveness of the state. No. He was the first person to suggest that if something’s wrong with our society, then criminality is a response to that. I’m talking from a sociological perspective, whereas you’re talking from the perspective of a fed. If you really are a teacher you might need to think about that. You thought I looked easy. You don’t like women disagreeing with you? That’s very unusual for a guy in law enforcement. My point is you teach about criminality but you’ve never heard of labeling theory? Have I sen you on ‘Soul Train?’ You went undercover in the counter-culture? Did you infiltrate the Manson family? You know anywhere else? Debbie. You want some pot? Come on. Come on, it’s my birthday. You’ve been plying me with booze all night. Don’t you think that’s kind of a mixed message? You coming?” — Debbie Mitford
“So what does a brick agent get up to in Detroit? So you were a snitch? Maybe this’ll loosen you up. You are such a goody-goody. You mean normal ones? So just put your mouth over the hole… and inhale.” — Debbie Mitford
“You really gotta get out more, Holden. You didn’t like it? Yeah, you have empathy. Really? Which words?” — Debbie Mitford
“Oh… fuck. Shit. Finger my pussy, I’ll give you a blowjob. All the bad words used in a sentence.” — Debbie Mitford
“Lost your appetite? It sounds like the contempt is mutual. They’ll never forgive you for putting a tail on John and Yoko. Please, they’re flattering themselves. They think you’re wearing a wire. There. You’re one of us now.” — Debbie Mitford
“What? Don’t be shy. Did I orgasm? What? I can’t believe you’re from New York. You can’t tell if a woman is faking? But you can tell if somebody’s lying, like a suspect. Pretend I’m a suspect. Use your powers of deduction, Agent Ford. How can you figure out the criminal mind if you can’t figure out your girlfriend? Wait. Is this another of those things you just can’t tell? What do you need, an exchange of rings over milkshakes? Really, Holden, sometimes you’re like a monk. Surely people in law enforcement shouldn’t be so naive. Where did that come from? Not at all. You’re smart. You’re nice. What? Those are good things. And you’re devastating. Oh, come on, you’re not leaving.” — Debbie Mitford
Wendy Carr
“Sorry, what? Oh. Bill. How are you? Welcome. How’s your family? I’m adapting a facade of caring. You want to dive in? Agent Ford. I’ve heard a lot about you. Your notes. Okay, um, let’s go to my office. I’m glad this worked out. When you sent me your notes from the Kemper meetings, I was in a real rut with my new book. It’s about white-collar criminals, men not so different from your Edmund Kemper. Well, first of all, they’re all psychopaths. I study captains of industry: IBM, MGM, Ford, Exxon, you name it. And sure, these men all have wives, kids, dogs, goldfish, but not because they stopped being psychopaths, but because they just had different leanings. Well, Kemper shows a total lack of remorse, a lack of inner emotional structure, no ability to reflect on the experience of others. It wouldn’t been clearer if you’d recorded and transcribed your interviews verbatim, but yeah. Although your project is obviously in the nascent stages, it already feels like like a clear successor to the The Mask of Sanity, which, as you know, is quite a compliment. Just the opposite. I mean, crazy in the way that anyone with a truly new idea is crazy. But no. Well, these men are just sitting here, locked up. And we’re too afraid of the morality of it to see the far-reaching value of their insights. Into behavioral science, early detection, criminology, you name it. You need to put this on a more formal footing. It’s gonna take a lot of time and energy to expand it into a larger project with a specific questionnaire. Their family histories, what their thoughts were on why they did it, when they were aroused during the killings, that sort of thing. Then contrast, compare, and publish. Well, you can’t just circulate your findings within the FBI. I mean, maybe even turn it into a book. Why not? Road school? Oh. I didn’t realize this was so informal. Have you shown your Kemper notes to your department head? Teaching police departments can someone else do that? I mean, imagine, like truly imagine what it takes to bludgeon someone to death. The lust for control, the feeling of arousal, the decision to rape the severed head of your victim, to humiliate her corpse. How could you possibly get that from an ordinary police report? You know why it took me nearly a decade to publish my book? Because narcissists don’t go to the doctor. Psychopaths are convinced that there is nothing wrong with them. So these men are virtually impossible to study. Yet you have found a way to study them in near perfect laboratory conditions. That’s what make this so exciting and potentially so far-reaching. Interviewing 40 men across the States is a full-time job. And if you want this to be a legitimate academic study, then you’re looking at four, maybe five years. And compiling, analyzing the data. It’s a shame. You know, this is really important work. If your boss won’t let you do it, then you should really talk to someone who has the freedom and resources to– of course not. It’s a pleasure.” — Wendy Carr
“Agent Ford. Thank you. It was a little dull to be honest. I was grading papers, but– no, I’m fine. I had some this morning. Um, I’m teaching a class on the intersection of sociopathy and fame. People like, um… Andy Warhol, Jim Morrison. Their celebrity becomes the only thing they need to sustain their ego. Very similar. The question is, how do you get to be president of the United States if you’re not? That’s why this work is so vital. It goes so much further than the FBI. Perhaps, yeah. What if Rissell doesn’t mean to kill anyone at this point? He’s still on track for rape, but it’s his first victim’s compliance that just kind of pushes him over the edge. Where is it? He says, ‘the whole thing is just fucking chaos.’ Exactly.” — Wendy Carr
“Eventually, yeah. Okay. So there are two triggers, one right after the other, for Rissell. Maybe trigger is wrong word. Too facile. What about stresses? Stressors. Let’s make that our term of art. Stress is more internal anyway. It’s more appropriate to our focus. So, the girlfriend writes him a Dear John letter and he– no, he goes down there. Which means that the victim’s behavior is also a stressor. I mean, it may mean that they can’t change the ultimate outcome, but they can affect when and how it happens. Well, what else is a criminal except someone who can’t function in society? If we want to be reductive, we can say that these men can’t handle normal stages of development– not at all. I meant to say you were right. How would most men feel if they were being intimate with a woman and they sensed that she wasn’t enjoying herself? Come on, be scientists. Right. But when Rissell sensed that his victim was enjoying herself, it turned him into a murderer. So, yes, what happens to these men is normal, but the way that they process it is not. That’s our goal, to dig into the why, like you did with Kemper. This is gonna take twice as long if you can’t do the interviews full-time. What is it? A question of money, of institutional rigidity, scheduling, what? You know, I’ve been in academia all my life, let me see what I can do.” — Wendy Carr
“So you’re in the middle of an ongoing investigation? Tell them that you have more important things to do with your time. My assumption is that you’re good at your job. Which means that you’re gonna be more focused on solving an actual crime than the theoretical work we’re doing. It’s not a question of good or bad. We can’t end crime, no matter what we do. But in the long run I think that our project could have a deeper impact than solving a single murder. So what jumped out when you were talking to Rissell? Kemper said something similar. I think you’re both right. I mean, it’s self pity, absolutely. And the psychopath understands how that plays to his audience. But the complicated part is that they actually believe it. They have to. I mean if they admitted that they rape and murder for pleasure, it would destroy them. There’s a tension. They need to be seen to have power over someone, and yet circumstance demands that they erase the only witness, which means they have to do the whole thing over again. It must be hell. Yeah, of course. How else could I do my job. Do Kemper and Rissell have other common traits? And differences. I’ve been going through their files. I’m trying to frame an overall taxonomy except I don’t know where to start. Whereas Kemper took photographs and dissected the victims, and was very good at hiding the remains. So could we say ‘systematic’ and ‘anti-systematic?’ Okay. Let’s try it. What goes where?” — Wendy Carr
“Hello. Wendy Carr. It’s a pleasure. Thank you so much for the invitation. It was unexpected, but appreciated. Are you in law enforcement also? What’s your concentration? So… Durkheim? Men often say that but they rarely mean it. I’m– excuse me. Could I get a Manhattan? And will you have another round?” — Wendy Carr
“So he called you directly? But he asked for me specifically? You as well. Uh, yes, thank you. Uh, yes, a handful of times Special Agent Tench was– I see. I had no intention of embarrassing you, Unit Chief Shepard. I was at a fund-raiser for the university and I was talking to some– I so apologize, it–” — Wendy Carr
“There you are. I’ve got all kinds of fun things for you to look over. Yeah, it’s hardly sexy but I’m trying to put together a list of questions for the killers that you interview. Things like family history, mood, thought patterns before, during, and after the crime. This is just a first draft, but look it over and let me know what you think. You mean just wing it? Yes, but we still need a data set that’s consistent across all our subjects. Back to Boston. Well, until you conduct more interviews there’s really nothing for me to do here. I got a taxi waiting. Thank you. But you believed him? Well, how did it feel? I mean, were you moved? Did you want to comfort him? Why’d you want him to stop? Try a little harder, Holden. You know, psychopaths are extremely skilled at imitating human emotions. It’s how they manipulate other people or how they gain power over their environment. Well, they have emotions. They just don’t believe other people have them. Or more specifically, they don’t believe that other people have interior lives. Well, it seems like you just did. Trust your instincts. Well, we’re developing a methodology, so use it. Look at where the perpetrator went. Hair, breasts, vagina, all symbols of her sexual power. Disfiguring her reproductive organs was a way to neutralize her. Like a trophy. A way to assert his dominance. How old is he? So that would give the relationship an extra significance. Well, what’s her history? Was she a virgin, too? So then she had some experience which could either excite or threaten him. You really believe that a young, pretty girl can’t be manipulative? Even if she was using sex to control him, and you have absolutely no evidence for this, then it would be what many women do to have an ounce of power in this world. Possibly. But then wouldn’t the rape already have accomplished that? Exactly. In all the crimes we’ve studied, there’s never been an example of a victim being raped and then depersonalized. If the killer mutilates her after death, then he usually commits sexual acts after death as well. It’s like there’s two different presentations in this crime scene. I’ll grab a cab. Bye.” — Wendy Carr
“Of course. No. No. Neither. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. No, I can’t. It’s very flattering, but I already have a job in Boston. They don’t know?” — Wendy Carr
“She was there. ‘Splashing.’ She doesn’t describe splashes on the wall, she uses a verb in the present tense. She says, ‘splashing.’ That’s right.” — Wendy Carr
“Did Ocasek tell him about Frank’s history of violence? Clearly, he’s the most dangerous of the three. It is acutely obvious that, in this instance, the anger was triggered by stressors that were focused on his fiancé in particular. Dramatic life events. Things that pushed both their buttons. But Frank didn’t want to be a father. He hated that. No. It’s what we call a stressor. Benjamin wouldn’t have been able to on his own. Pushed. Yes. Frank saw his chance and raped Beverly Jean. Situationally motivated sexual assaults– as opposed to preferential, yes. All three of them are responsible for her death. No, that was Benjamin. Frank and Benjamin left her body at the dump, wrapped up. But Benjamin came back a few days later. He couldn’t let go. Remember, he was under a lot of stress. He took the knife to her– I’m just here to provide you with intelligent, accurate analysis. I agree. But it isn’t my job to make the jury understand anything. That’s your job. And we have all placed our trust in you. How do we translate this so you can use it? It’s complicated, I know. Benjamin knocked her out because he felt like he was rejected, which is a stressor. He tied her up and called his brother-in-law Frank because he didn’t know what to do. So Frank comes over and takes advantage of the situation and rapes her. Benjamin doesn’t stop him because he wants to see her humiliated. Now Frank knows that he’s in trouble, so he starts telling Benjamin what a slut she is. And that is a big problem for Benjamin. So they kill her. Then they call Rose, have her come and help clean up. And she sees the poor girl in the bathtub and realizes that she’s still alive. So they stab her again. And then they move the body to the dump.” — Wendy Carr
“That went well. Well, I mean, Holden, you know these people. I don’t. I think that he seemed very intent on blaming Benjamin, and I’m not quite sure I got him over that. Well, if you’re right, then we should be fine. What do you mean? What? Is small talk a way you deal with your anxiety? Hm. Okay.” — Wendy Carr
“It’s all about process now. Refining our methodology, making sure we’re airtight and idiot-proof. So we need more subjects.” — Wendy Carr
“You know, you’re going to see people present with similar pathologies, but the way a person kills is as individual and distinct as the way they have sex.” — Wendy Carr
“It’s all about finding patterns.” — Wendy Carr
"This is no longer a theoretical exercise." pic.twitter.com/4LErCH4GUm
— MINDHUNTER (@MINDHUNTER_) October 24, 2017
We spoke to @MINDHUNTER_ star @HoltMcCallany about working with David Fincher and redressing the serial killer genrehttps://t.co/Skt6w4EDWX
— Hot Press (@hotpress) November 3, 2017
I'm just here to provide you with intelligent, accurate analysis.
— MINDHUNTER (@MINDHUNTER_) October 29, 2017
The Real Serial Killers Who Inspired Netflix’s Mindhunter https://t.co/vxlYBzlyCR via @vulture
— Holt McCallany (@HoltMcCallany) October 25, 2017
— MINDHUNTER (@MINDHUNTER_) October 21, 2017
We should be careful. pic.twitter.com/ZpWKPGMh3U
— MINDHUNTER (@MINDHUNTER_) October 18, 2017
MINDHUNTER, on Netflix: Strongly recommended. Other than a jaw-dropping moment in the first episode, very little gore.
— Stephen King (@StephenKing) October 17, 2017
We're doing research.
Interviewing men like you.
To better understand why you do what you do.— MINDHUNTER (@MINDHUNTER_) October 16, 2017
We need to talk to more subjects. pic.twitter.com/7pTnxAhM0G
— MINDHUNTER (@MINDHUNTER_) November 30, 2017